Love and Legalism – a tale of two Baha’i communities

April 12, 2016
A Bahai with his family

One of these is a Bahai. Would his family be welcome in your Bahai community?

Abby’s story:
I was raised a Baha’i, so that is definitely why it took me so long to come out.

Added to that are my many happy experiences in the Baha’i community, which explains why I am still happy to call myself a Baha’i today, living with my same-sex partner and my children.

I was always attracted to women but knew it was a no go.

I married a man because that’s what I was supposed to do.

The LSA became aware of my “lifestyle” years ago because my ex-husband went to the Assembly to complain about me.

They told him to mind his own business, but I didn’t know this until after my meeting with them. I was extremely anxious about meeting with the LSA, and had no idea they would be so incredibly loving and accepting. It seemed clear to me that they were open to learning and desperately did not want me to feel unloved or unaccepted. It is a struggle for them, as they know the laws, but they also know me and I suppose this forced them to open their eyes on this subject. I told the LSA that I refuse to hide or pretend to be something I am not and felt doing so was dishonest and against the Faith. I pointed out that heterosexual Baha’is who are single or dating do not have their chastity questioned, and unless they are in my bedroom have no idea what is going on… That as Baha’is we are encouraged to be loving and the only “law” pertains to chastity. Except the marriage part… They also know that I would like to marry my partner. Not sure I’ll still have my voting rights then though!

And now because I live with my partner, I was offered a meeting to “deepen” on the writings on the subject but I declined. I have read everything, needless to say, being born, raised and currently still a Baha’i. If I didn’t love Baha’u’llah so much I would leave the Faith, and I told the LSA I would leave if they felt I was doing wrong by the Faith. They said absolutely no way should I leave the Faith. Another member of the LSA told me they are still babies with this subject and would like to be enlightened. I thought that was great.

For me, if the LSA had reacted negatively I would have left. We are supposed to love everyone and accept everyone. For me, Bahá’ís who judge or are homophobic are committing a greater sin than me, loving the most incredible human being I’ve ever known. But it is their issue and whatever I do is between me and God, I’m OK with that. If the LSA felt I was harming the Faith I would leave.

It’s very frustrating because I think individuals who don’t have any LGBT friends have bizarre ideas in their heads, and don’t think of us as regular, boring, loving, normal, fellow human beings. I’m not willing to live my life alone when I haven’t been convinced that Baha’u’llah believes this is what I should do.

The fact that my LGBT friends are loving and accepting of everyone, yet many Bahá’ís cannot be, is a contradiction of the Faith and my friends are the ones who are unprejudiced and all loving. I love all diversity in the world and this is just another. So many people miss out on knowing some beautiful human beings by judging what they don’t know.
I think my story is as positive as it can be for this time. I would love to I go to Feast with my partner and be active with her, but until the UHJ changes things I will keep my relationship with the faith at home. There are also some individuals in my local community who have shown in their behaviour that they do not welcome me as a lesbian.

“…homosexuality is not a condition to which a person should be reconciled, but is a distortion of his or her nature which should be controlled or overcome.”

Letter of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, 12 January 1973; cited in Messages from the Universal House of Justice, 1968-1973, pp. 110-111; also cited in Lights of Guidance, #1222, published in 1983, p. 365

“Marriage is a union between a man and a woman, and sexual relations are only permissible between husband and wife.”

Department of secretariat letter from the Universal House of Justice,
9 May 2014
The The full letter is here

If the UHJ published a more positive view on this subject, I wouldn’t care what the rest of the community thought. It would be great to enlighten Baha’is unfamiliar with “ordinary” LGBT people. The LSA said I should not let anything keep me from attending the Feast. I feel if the UHJ changed the law there would be no leg for anyone to stand on and they would have to look at their own prejudices. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there are other LGBT people in the community who are not out.

I’ve been to Baha’i functions in the last few years, and a few Feasts, and feel quite close to some members of my LSA and my local community. I do have children that I am raising Baha’i. I live the life, so to speak (in service to others, love and acceptance and celebration of everyone). Unfortunately, my ex-husband is preachy towards my children about the evils of homosexuality. I have to tell them to not judge the Faith by their father and focus on the beautiful, amazing Baha’is we have in our community.

The LSA has encouraged me to go to feast and suggested I go to a cluster that the ex isn’t at. And they have asked what they could do to help support me, if there was anything. They are very loving.

Being able to share this with others gives me goosebumps and makes me smile.

Julia’s story:
I have been a Baha’i for some 30 years now, and I always tended to keep things pretty clear and honest, but my honesty got me into trouble. I told my daughters about my sexuality on the day I left the marital home and moved in with Granuaile, and I sent a letter to my LSA because I knew my husband had been in touch with them and given his side of the story. Then a member of the LSA, who has been a close friend of the family, asked me to come and see her. First privately, but also as a representative of the LSA. We had a nice chat but then she told me that her main concern with all this was the fact that her 16-year-old son could find out that I am living with a woman! How could people be so cruel? And that from someone I thought of as my friend. Another LSA member told me that I could no longer be a member of the Baha’i community if I was a lesbian. I was devastated. Baha’is who had been close friends stopped speaking to me, and my daughter, also a Baha’i, said that I could not visit her nor the grandchildren.

I have certainly come to realise that if you rock anybody’s boat most people react in some kind of strange way. What are they afraid of? As I told everybody, family and LSA alike, I had to do something for myself and now am happy and asked them to be happy with me. My daughters even said they wanted their fat, smoking mother back. (On this note I have to say that I have lost quite a bit of weight – which I needed to do anyway – and also gave up smoking in the last year – all since I have met my partner.)

The calendar of events, until then a regular e-mail sent to all in the community, stopped being sent to me. I was just dropped as the “old friend” they used to call me. I lived for my community and would have really appreciated a phone call or e-mail occasionally to see how I was – but nothing. It was as if I was dead. My partner’s friends were much more loving and understanding.

Then months later, the NSA asked a member of the pastoral care committee to contact me to find out what was going on. I had a lovely long chat with her on the phone. I tried to explain what my innermost thoughts about the Faith were, and that nobody had the right to tell me that I could or could not have these thoughts – I will always be a Baha’i in my heart – even if the NSA was threatening to take away my administrative rights. I was sent a letter from the NSA a few weeks later which stated: “You should be aware that if you do not take steps to align your life with the standards set out in the Holy Writings then the National Assembly will be left with no other option but to seriously consider removing your administrative rights. This is something that the Assembly very much wishes to avoid and it therefore lovingly invites you to reconsider your position; in this regard, it warmly offers you an opportunity to discuss your situation with a representative of the National Assembly whom you trust.”

Almost a year after this all began an LSA member phoned me saying that he had a “heavy heart” as he hadn’t spoken to me and he was a close friend as well as a fellow Baha’i. Then he said that his heavy heart was because he wanted to tell me where I had gone wrong because he was concerned about the well-being of my soul. I asked him why he was not concerned about me in the last year when I could really have done with a bit of friendly support.

At about the same time I had a friendly chat with an NSA member, and then a few weeks later I received a call from a local Baha’i reminding me that the NSA was going to meet in the next couple of days and had my case on the agenda, and wanted a response from me. So I sent a letter stating that I still believed in Baha’u’llah but could not go back to a life that felt dishonest to me, and that I was not going to leave the only person who is a support for me. In reply to that the NSA wrote a letter removing my administrative rights.

So there we have it – I am no longer a Baha’i in good standing.

I cannot contact the UHJ myself.

I cannot attend feasts, etc.

On the upside – the NSA wanted to know what happened in my 30 years of marriage because I hinted that it was not a happy time for me. I have very mixed feelings about being a “second class Baha’i” and have to think long and hard as to what I want to do now.

What was once a loving and caring community has turned into the total opposite and it seems they feel that, by sticking their heads in the sand, the “problem” will go away – or the NSA will deal with it. Somebody once said to look at the LSA/NSA as loving parents – well I cannot see any love anywhere – on the contrary.

These two stories show how two LSAs (Local Spiritual Assemblies) in differing western countries treated a lesbian member of their community in similar situations. Pope Francis recently made some statements on the topic of same sex marriage, about this never being possible within the Catholic Church. This is similar to the Universal House of Justice’s own statements, however there’s one big difference. In the same statement Pope Francis talks of pastors engaging in a careful process of “discernment” with regard to individual cases and helping people reach decisions in conscience about the fashion in which the law applies to their circumstances. The blog “Pope Francis lets the world in on the Church’s best-kept secret” by John L. Allen Jr. explains it like this: “Yes, the Church has laws, and it takes them very seriously. But even more than law it has flesh-and-blood people, and it takes their circumstances and struggles seriously too.
At one stage, Pope Francis writes that the divorced and remarried can find themselves in situations ‘which should not be pigeonholed or fit into overly rigid classifications, leaving no room for a suitable personal and pastoral discernment.’”
(8 April 2016)

Instead of a pastoral service or priests, the Baha’i community has the elected Local Spiritual Assembly (LSA). In the stories above we saw that one LSA chose compassion and aimed to see the picture from the point of the individual, and some even saw it as an opportunity to learn. The other LSA appears to have used Baha’i law like a stick with stern counseling which the National Spiritual Assembly (NSA) later reinforced with punitive action. I found the letter which stated that her voting rights were removed from that NSA particularly shocking because of these words “The principle reason for doing [this] is because such an arrangement is publicly in breach of Baha’i law and therefore your administrative rights are removed to protect the good name of the Faith.” If public impressions are the real issue, the fact is that in most western countries, religious examples of tolerance and compassion on such issues bring good publicity, not shame. They also noted that she is not allowed to host “devotional meetings nor any of the core activities related to the Plan” nor host Holy Days, teach children’s classes and a long list of other exclusions. Non-Baha’is are not excluded as much as this. I will work on a separate blog about what Shoghi Effendi wrote concerning the use and purpose of the removal of administrative rights, as it is clear to me that here it is being used to discriminate and exclude. At the same time, an NSA is free to be as harsh as they wish in the way they choose to apply Baha’i law, but the purpose of my blog will be to show that Baha’i law can be used like “choice wine,” to quote Baha’u’llah – using law with discernment without breaking any of the Baha’i principles.

This matters greatly to me because there’s not only the pain experienced by Julia and the pain I feel in reading her story, but also the problem of those who feel they are doing the right thing by the Baha’i teachings in reporting her to the LSA and the NSA, in excluding her because she is a lesbian, backbiting about her in the community (I’ve omitted this part of her story because it is so awful), not to mention all those others in her community who see this happening and go along with it, either because they think exclusion is right or because they are afraid to say anything.

Which Baha’i community would you want to be a member of? Which type of Baha’i community has a future in today’s world? Baha’is often don’t like me asking such questions because they argue that the Baha’i community shouldn’t be influenced by fads or trends, and that five letters written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi decades ago are all the guidance we need. I believe that Baha’u’llah’s religion is structured to change with the times, and that it is intended for all peoples – not just those who like things to stay the same or want to exclude people because they represent an aspect of diversity that they are unfamiliar with.

“…the broader issues that are the foundation of the religious law are explicitly stated, but subsidiary matters are left to the House of Justice. The wisdom of this is that time does not stand still: change and transformation are essential attributes and necessities of this world, and of time and place. Therefore the House of Justice implements decisions accordingly.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Tablet on on religious law and the House of Justice, provisional translation.



  1. Disobedience to God’s laws and commandments is nothing new, its an age old problem, sin is sin no matter what lifestyle spin you put on it. The Baha’i Faith will not waive in its sole support of heterosexual marriage ONLY. Some LSAs are simply not upholding the laws and teachings of the Faith and are guilty of sin in not doing so. LSA’s are fallible but if a homosexual marriage were brought to the attention of the NSA, appropriate action would taken even in the incredibly secular UK.

    • Your comment here Dr J, illustrates why the stories expressed above are to so important to share. 1. To show that for some Bahais humanity and compassion matter and 2. for any discerning reader, they will note that this has nothing to do with what you call “God’s laws” but to do with the current policy of the UHJ.

      Your threat about any LSA being brought to the attention of a NSA is the very reason why I have to keep identities in the closet on my blog. I know many examples of the actions of an NSA or LSA being influenced by those complaining rather than looking at the picture from principle, etc. Like I mentioned in my blog, I think Baha’u’llah’s law is intended to be like a “choice wine” – to be used with discernment and in context with the principles. It is, in my view, a medival concept to view law as a set of rules to be followed without context, thought or deeper reflection. It reminds me of the thoughts expressed in the novel, Heart of Darkness where the author expresses the view that we need policemen on every street corner to keep us moral. I disagree, I think we do not need the fear of punishment to create a sense of morality and in fact I see it as a Bahai teaching that we are to place understanding, diversity and tolerance over blind obedience to what a majority in any given situation might say.

      This is what I find so revolutionary about the Bahai teachings. Baha’u’llah repeatedly stresses that this is not a prescriptive religion. This is not a religion with a list of do and do nots and in fact this is why the Bahai administration was created, so that there is a system in place that can make new laws and a system that can adapt to a changing world.

    • There’s no spin here. I was born gay. I don’t care if the NSA supports gay marriage. My point is I have never had a problem being true to myself and being a Baha’i. Our job as Bahai’s is to spread the glory and teachings of Baha’u’llah and live the best life we can and strive to follow his laws. I have known Bahais who drink, participate in politics, backbite and have had premarital heterosexual sex. I don’t judge them because the writings are clear it’s not my place to do so. And even though ‘Abdu’l-Bahá himself says that “Backbiting is the greatest sin, Bahai’s, like other religions, seem to let this one slide…and focus on gays and lesbians as if it’s somehow worse. That’s my point. I care not what PEOPLE think…because their judgement is unimportant. And I often find it hypocritical. I have sat and heard Bahai’s complaining about gay people, and in the same conversation start backbiting about their neighbors. The irony is lost on them. Not me. Much love to all.

  2. Thank you for sharing your story. I have been an out gay Bahai my entire life. I keep things simple for people who don’t understand why I remain a Bahai because of the UHJ’s stance on homosexuality. It’s because I believe Baha’u’llah is the manifestation of God for our day and age. I know what his words were. I know that I am exactly as he created me. And I know that while Bahais may judge me…I only worry about my connection with God and Baha’u’llah. And I am 100% content that they love and accept me….no questions asked.

    Much love to you,
    Jeffrey Reddick

    PS…in a link to my Twitter profile is a music video I directed on gay conversion therapy. xox

    • Jeffrey, Having read a few of your comments on here, I want to thank you for sharing. I think your position and attitude is the straight path when it comes to this issues. Baha’is should not judge, and we should accept each other with all their struggles and flaws. At the same time, being gay is a challenge for those who believe, and it behooves LBG Baha’is not to disregard their own situation.

      I personally support the Universal house of Justice in remaining firm in its duty to uphold the writings of Baha’u’llah, ‘Abdu’l-Baha, and the Guardian. I believe that they and the NSA’s only remove administrative rights when they believe the particular Baha’is are being flagrant, an issue that should apply with any sin, not just living with an extramarital partner. If I were drinking alcohol and were unapologetic and flippant about it, I should have my rights removed. Yet I would hope no one would shame me in the community, and that I would receive tolerance, love and patience so long as I strove to contain my desires and outwardly serve the Cause as the best role model I could.

      To all LBG Baha’is: If any Baha’i ever shames you for being LGB, ignore them! It should never have been their business.

      To all Baha’is: If you have a personal vice or sin, which certainly we all do, please do not make it a source of pride, and do not flaunt it. The administration has a duty to remove the rights of anyone who is flagrant, no exceptions. It saddens me that one group of Baha’is feels they are especially targeted, so let us empathize by all struggling to overcome our desires, together. That is how we remain united!

      To Baha’i administrators: Please strive be just in all that you do. Do not treat one form of sin or vice in the community as better or worse than the others, unless Baha’ullah requires so. Obey the laws of your country, and uphold your Baha’i community to obey Baha’u’llah’s laws and never be flagrant in their sins.

    • Thanks, Neale, however for me, the issue is one for all Bahais to address not just LGBT Bahais. I mean if we see an example of a gay or a lesbian being treated more harshly than anyone else … looking the other way is, in my book as bad as being the perpetrator of the injustice. I agree with you on this
      “I personally support the Universal house of Justice in remaining firm in its duty to uphold the writings of Baha’u’llah, ‘Abdu’l-Baha, and the Guardian. ” and my question is is there anything in Bahai scripture that even hints of being anti-gay. I haven’t found any and i’ve been looking for decades. I am well aware of letters written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, but if all letters are the same as scripture then no form of birth control would be a Bahai teaching (as well as all the other things given as advice in those letters penned by secretaries). I am aware that the UHJ states that marriage is only possible between a man and woman, but until they show scripture in support of this statement, then this is their understanding or their policy and as such their ruling has authority but it is a ruling that can be changed. And I have never indicated in any of my blogs that they should change only that they can, if they wanted to. I have no interest in lobbying the UHJ and I do not think it is the way to do things.

      So i do disagree with your comment “being gay is a challenge for those who believe” – for me it is those who think there is something wrong with being gay that is a challenge. Thanks for your comments

    • To clarify, I don’t feel burdened as a gay man. I feel blessed. (Dating is hard though.) 😉 I was trying to address Dr. J on his terms. He’s done nothing but spew judgement and mean-spirited rhetoric. He cloaks it by saying he’s just “educating” us. I was pointing out that if he really feels this is a demonic site (which is a Christian construct, not a Bahai one) and that we’re breaking laws, he’s disregarding all the teachings by arguing and judging. I told him to report my ass. Poor Dr. J…so full of judgement and venom. And getting so worked up over something that’s really none of his business. It’s sad really. But indicative of the how many people bring their Christian judgement to the faith.

    • I agree Jeffrey, over the years that he has been commenting here, little has changed in his stance, so I’ve pulled the plug. I had allowed his comments, thinking, it is an example of how some Bahais behave (unfortunately he is not alone in calling me a covenant breaker or in making the claim that I am challenging the foundations of the Bahai admin, etc) and I felt it is better to have this aired and then address this, but I don’t want others commenting here to be attacked nor to feel they have to defend their positions. I have repeatedly pointed that name calling is not very mature and I agree with you, it seems to be hangover from his own background.

  3. Jeffrey’s powerful music video, Divine Cure with music by BJ Major is here: https://youtu.be/z1tjY_irhKE

    A music video about a young man sent off to conversion camp by his parents. The music is fabulous but the imagery might be a bit shocking. i found it hard to watch. My friend Sean Rayshel wrote “here’s an Institute called Teen Challenge , they use strong water hoses and hose down those who are afflicted with homosexuality who refuse to admit they are heterosexual , and they are in a “phase”. I wonder if this Conversion Therapy is an American phenomenon ?”
    I wonder if it is too, as I have never heard of conversion therapy being attempted outside of the US. I had heard of counselling, etc, but not tactics such as putting teenagers’ heads under water or hitting them as you see in the video.

    • This happened to a friend of mine, Jake Johnson, in Utah. There have been camps like that in the USA for years. Much worse happened to Jake. He was only 9 when his parents sent him there. Thankfully, he is alive and well. He acts in the video. He’s the boy who gets beaten by the other boys in the video.

    • I have just re-watched your video. I couldn’t watch past the beating of the teenager last time. I will make a new blog about this as it is very important. It shocks me to the core that any parent would subject a child to this. This is child abuse in the worst form as far as I am concerned. I assume that I can incorporate your comments here into the blog.

    • Of course. Thanks for spreading the word. It is a sad reality for many LGBT youth. xox

  4. RG wrote: “I think I understand the second story better because it more closely resembles my own experience. But after a gap of eight years, where no Baha’i contacted me to find out what happened to me, some are now reaching out to me with friendship and acceptance. So I know that both these stories live in the Baha’i community. And as to the statement of the UHJ that being gay is a distortion of the persons nature – if God made them this way, then the real distortion of their nature would come if the gay person tried to be straight – in my opinion.”

  5. Love is legalism in this case, the pro heterosexual laws/teachings/admonishments are for our spiritual well being. These statements are not condoling homosexual behavior, they tell us to seek counseling, sex addiction 12 step programs and prayer to overcome our senses, compulsions and passions run by the Satanic self. BTW, God creates the mentally ill, persons with personality disorders and other chronic mental health issues. So the fact that God creates the social construction of such definitions of self as the “homosexual” doesn’t prove its normal or acceptable sexual behaviors. I have had patients who are into bestiality so we should simply accept their behaviors now? The secularists have no spiritual guidance so hedonism and a general acceptance of all forms of sexual behaviors by consenting adults tend to be their modus operandi. So we see increasing acceptance of co-habitation,pre marital sex, extra marital sex and other forms of sex that have been restricted by world religions for centuries, including the Baha’i revelation. Many secularists argue humans are incapable of being loyal to one partner. BTW, there is no proof that sexual orientation is biological and never a social construct. Even if there was proof its biological, so is schizophrenia biological, but that doesn’t make it normal.

    We must look toward God to give us guidance on normality. God will tell us through the Baha’i institutions where to draw the line in the sand and God has done this on the issue of homosexual behavior and marriage. Baha’is who define themselves as “homosexuals” just don’t like what our institutions have commanded you do, so you rebel!. The question is where do we draw the line with the secularists thinking? The reality is that there are few lines but with God’s thinking there are many lines.

    • I get it Gerojohn, as a Bahai you are placing gays and lesbians into the same category as animals! Fortunately there’s nothing in Bahai scripture to support your views.

    • I knew you would jump to extreme and spurious conclusions as you always do–its your specialty. No homosexuals are not the same as animals. But they are guilty of the sin of homosexuality. This sin is in a similar category as that of extra marital sex or other forms of less deviant behaviors that are not criminal, animal sex is a crime in America.The Catholic Church, most Christian denominations as well, take the same view. BTW, even though you want to make the Pope more liberal than he is, his pro heterosexual and sex only in marriage belief will NEVER change and there are more Catholics than all Christian churches combined. You have a losing cause and you know it. Baha’is love the homosexual but dislike her or his behavior, we love other persons who have other forms of deviant behaviors but dislike their behaviors as well. So it is with the Pope and 99 percent of Moslem’s and members of other world religions.

    • And just because there can’t be a loving conversation about the trials and struggles of my LBGT brothers and sisters without some truly enlightened Bahai equating us with bestiality and mentally ill…I wanted to leave you all with this wonderful video about love from chart-topping Bahai artist Andy Grammer. https://youtu.be/Go7gn6dugu0

  6. Your statements reflect many archaic arguments…comparing homosexuality to bestiality , etc. True they have not found a gay gene. But there’s enough scientific evidence to show that ones orientation cannot be changed….only REPRESSED And while the UHJ may never condone same sex marriage, one of our greatest teachings is that science and religion must agree. The scientific consensus is that being gay is innate for people and can’t be changed. The only non-consensus is from religious doctors. And even the ones who practice conversion therapy admit their patients aren’t “turned” straight. They just spend a lifetime repressing who they really are. Their statements on science have tried to dismiss science in favor of the teachings…saying that “underreporting” and “scientific bias” may be the cause of scientists saying people can’t change their orientation. But science is fact. Not bias. Of course you have an answer for that…if they do find a gay gene, it’ll be like someone who is born mentally ill. Still not normal. One can’t have meaningful consultation with that kind of thinking. Gay Bahai’s aren’t rebelling. We’re asking several things: 1) Not to be singled out for prejudice or judgement or disdain….which every letter from the UHJ has forbid. Yet re-reading your post Gerojohn, comparing us to people who practice bestiality is treating us with disdain. 2) Don’t be a hypocrite. I see Bahai’s backbiting or Bahai’s who drink and I never see any kind of uproar from anyone. I don’t see their behavior being compared to bestiality or people saying they’re mentally ill.

    I’ll end on this note from the UHJ: “They (homosexuals) should be treated just like any other people seeking admittance to the Faith, and be accepted on the same basis. Our teachings, as outlined in “The Advent of Divine Justice” on the subject of living a chaste life, should be emphasized to them just as to every other applicant, but certainly no ruling whatsoever should be laid down in this matter. The Bahá’ís have certainly not yet reached that stage of moral perfection where they are in a position to too harshly scrutinize the private lives of other souls, and each individual should be accepted on the basis of his faith, and sincere willingness to try to live up to the Divine standards.”

    I try to live to Divine standards. But until I meet a Bahai who has reached moral perfection, I take their judgement with a grain of salt. And focus on Baha’u’llah’s message of loving everyone without judgement. And uniting the world.

    • For me the fact that there are bisexuals who are equally attracted to both sexes and who have changed is pretty good proof that its a social construct rather than genetic. Gays argue that the bisexual is in denial but through therapy some have changed but admittedly its at a rate similar to alcoholics in recovery programs. Its not a very high rate because its a form of sex addiction in my view, that’s very hard to change as is the case for any addictive behaviors. Regardless homosexuality is sinful behavior and our UHJ will never approve of it nor will Bahais ever be guilty of not loving gays as you like to speculate in your persecution complex used to justify your continuation of living in sin. We love the person but dislike the behavior. You don’t want to acknowledge that and would choose to paint us as gay bashers, so be it. Because gay MIGHT (and that’s a big might) be biologically based, a theory that still hasn’t been proven, doesn’t mean its normal, there are biological psychosis and many other abnormalities people are born with. That fact remains, its a false argument. We have the old world order, part of that is that religion has lost its power and sins have become normalized, hence we have your websites attempts to normalize the sin of gay behavior. Of course we all sin in various ways but that should never be used as a justification to co-habit in a homosexual relationship. Your thinking, since other Baha’is sin I can continue to sin, that makes sense doesn’t it? You have a website here that borders on covenant breaking, you participate in a blog to support people who desire to continue in a sin by seeing themselves as victims and getting the support of others to continue in this sin. Hence you justify your behavior through rationalizations and justifications.

    • DrJ you wrote”For me the fact that there are bisexuals who are equally attracted to both sexes and who have changed is pretty good proof that its a social construct rather than genetic.” makes me realise that you don’t understand that a bisexual is attracted to either gender and because of this, it is not a case of ‘changing’ but being able to choose. It would be the same as saying that because some people can use both hands equally then that means those who are severely left-handed can learn to live as a right-handed person. And my question to both this analogy and yours is, “Why the need?” and why in your case, the hate? it seems a lot like hate to me. Just look at your words.

    • The writings clearly tell you how to deal with homosexuals. We can lovingly speak to someone whose behavior we think reflects poorly on the faith. We can pray for them. If that doesn’t work, we are instructed to report their behavior to a governing body. We are told not to engage in discourse or arguing. That kind of behavior was allowed in the old world order. I obviously came here late and just caught your heated, judgmental proclamations with blanket statements about gays. I missed the posts where you consulted, in the spirit of love and unity, on this topic. I won’t engage in arguing. And I definitely am not justifying myself to anyone. I have lived an open and honest life for 46 years. I’m flawed, but not perfect. However, if you feel like what I’m writing is harming the faith then do report me. My full name is here and my email is my name @me.com. If you don’t like this board, or what people are saying (and I haven’t read everything so I can only speak for my gay ole self) you are instructed by the UHJ not to engage in arguments. I’m sure you we can all agree that you’re not participating in Bahai consultation. You’re arguing and adding to discourse. I hope you can see the irony. But rather than encourage this, I’ll do my part to help you follow the teachings, by not saying anything on my side that will stir more discourse. I will continue living my life spreading light and love. And seriously, if you feel I’m doing anything to harm the faith, I pray you to follow the writings and report me. Much love to all, Jeffrey

  7. You label any Baha’is who oppose you as “haters.” Nice strategy to make you or this Blog appeal less evil and more “loving”. So you continue to demonize loving but honest Baha’is like myself and others who have appeared on this demonic site to help you get back on the straight path, no pun intended. But you demonize your opposition, which are mainstream Baha’is and our beloved ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER. I would suspect there is a far more pragmatic reason for you not associating with Baha’is. This website alone would be enough for you to lose your administrative rights and possibly qualify as a Covenant Breaker since you challenge our infalliable Institutions and overtly or covertly degrade the Guardian and the Central Figures to promote your homosexual agenda. So I would guess some of that has already happened because you would also question our beliefs in communities until you would force the LSA or NSA to take action. Alot of hate has driven you to do this site I am sure–you are a bitter person. You are well aware of the explicit Bahá’í standard–that is what you hate. We are told that marriage is a union between a man and a woman, and sexual relations are only permissible between husband and wife. That is what you protest and hate. These points are laid down in the writings of Bahá’u’lláh, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, and Shoghi Effendi and are not subject to change by the Universal House of Justice. Bahá’u’lláh also prohibits certain sexual acts, including homosexual relations; if such statements are considered by some to be unclear, the crystal clear interpretations provided by Shoghi Effendi constitute a binding exposition of His intent. The Guardian’s interpretations, made in his role as the authoritative expounder, clarify the true meaning of the Text and are not derived from the scientific knowledge of the time. ” from the Secretariat of the Universal House of Justice. I am sure you won’t post this because these facts will not put you in the false light you are trying to create.

    • Dr J you repreatedly fire away here, and for a long time I have allowed your statements to stand as an example of how one Bahai feels they should be able to speak on the topic of gay and lesbian rights. However the purpose here is not to provide a forum for you to continue to insult and make threats or unsubstantiated claims. So Dr J + your alias, Gerojohn, I will not allow anymore of your comments here. Go and make your own blog is my advice.

  8. L wrote: I’m a 3rd generation Bahá’í, though if asked I generally say that I was “raised Bahá’í” because these days I often feel like there isn’t a place for me in the Bahá’í community, and I’ve sort of drifted away from being involved, since getting more and more involved with the LGBT+ community.
    It’s hard to gauge how (un)accepting the Bahá’í community was, back “home”, because my mom has never been particularly accepting, and often points to her interpretations of the Faith as though it explains why she feels the way she does about sexuality (and sometimes gender)… but at one point I was part of a semi-secret group that was looking into how to improve how welcoming the community felt to LGBT+ folks, and it seemed like everyone there was either closeted or an ally.
    The Bahai community where I live these days has reached out to me a couple of times, but I can’t bring myself to go to any events (transportation is also a factor, but I’ve been offered rides by nearby Bahais). I guess I’m just convinced that if I introduce myself as trans right away, then they’ll jeopardize my status within the Faith somehow.

  9. Somewhere here is mentioned that Baha’i is not a list of do’s and don’ts. I identified myself as Baha’i for thirty years, though loosely enjoyed church involvement because of my kids and my singing.
    The Kitab-i-Aqdas – The Most Holy Book is worth reading and seriously considering – the one hundred and eighty-one laws. If that is not a list of do’s and don’ts, I do not know what is.
    I left the faith in 2014 and feel so much happier as a Christian. Boy, thirty years of much misery in various Baha’i communities took a toll on me. Am feeling more and more distant, that is recovering from my Baha’i life, and know that the God I believe in loves me and wants relationship with me and does not care what direction I say my prayers, or what time of day, or if my clothes have a speck of dirt on them OR if I am menstruating (which thankfully I do not anymore).

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